How did you get started in podcasting?
I have a friend named Jeremy Taggart. He used to play in a Canadian band called “Our Lady Peace”. He was leaving the band and looking for something new to do. It was around the time I was leaving the show called “Trailer Park Boys”, and looking for something else to do. We always really had great conversations, and we thought we could record them and put them out into the universe for people to hear.
What gave you the idea for your podcast?
Well, I guess there's a comedic tradition of the odd couple. Jeremy and I are good friends, and we're alike in some ways. We're both fathers. We both started our careers young. But we're different in some ways. He's a rock star and I worked in TV. So I get to ask him all the questions you'd always want to ask a rock star, but might never get the chance to.
When you guys started the podcast did you already have a team?
When we started, it was just the 2 of us. There's a rock band called Arkells. The Drummer for Arkells is a guy named Tim, and Tim is in charge of editing our podcast. So Jeremy lives in Ontario and I live in Nova Scotia. We both record our sides of what is basically an hour long phone conversation, and then we send our recordings to Tim and Tim stitches them together.
Can you give a summary of the first episode of your podcast, and why you made it?
Well, we've made 310 episodes. So it's a little hard to remember what the first episode was. But I remember in the early going I thought it should be very produced, like we have a top 5 list, and then we do a game, and then we have a guest. And I learned that what people really want in podcasts is long form conversation. And when things went wrong that's when our listeners were like “I like that part”. It doesn't have to be really slick.
How many people would you say are ideal for a podcast team, and what roles?
I guess it depends on whether people are hoping to do it for a hobby or a “jobby”. It's hard to make money in podcasts. You have to have a lot of people listening to make money. So it depends what your intention is. If it's just something you want to do, kind of on weekends as something fun, then you can have as many people as you want involved. But Taggart and Torrens wouldn't be able to pay a bunch of people's mortgages.
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I'm not a tech person. It helps to have someone that kind of handles the tech stuff.
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We have another friend named Mike, who just listened to the podcast and was able to help us with some things we couldn't do. Early on, a guy named Derek said “Hey, I listen to your podcast. You guys should have t-shirts. I have a T-shirt company.” So it's kind of the type of thing that people wanted to jump in and help more, rather than hiring a big team.
How does a podcast earn income?
Excellent question. Much like television, the best way is to have something that a lot of people want to watch or listen to. Because the more people that listen to something, the more you can charge to have ads in it. There are different types of ads in podcasts. Some are in the body of the show, some are “We'll be right back after this commercial.” The best way I can explain it, which is something that's hard to understand, even for me, is that we have sponsors who will pay a certain amount per listener. Let's say it's 10 cents per listener. So if you have 20,000 listeners, you make 20,000 times 10 cents. But it takes a lot of listeners, and in some cases multiple ads to make a good living at it. However, if you make a podcast like “Smartless”, which is listened to by millions of people, then if you make a little bit per listener, that obviously adds up a lot quicker.
In your opinion, what's the best episode of your podcast?
I would say in general, the best episodes are the ones where we're really listening to each other. We did a video component for a while, and I felt we were both so caught up in making sure we looked like we were paying attention and listening, that we weren't really listening and trying to think about what to say next.
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So we did an episode. I think it was our hundredth episode. We did a cruise, and all of the characters we'd made up in the podcast were on this cruise. It was just sort of improv, of course, and making it up as we go. But it just really seemed to seamlessly come together sometimes. As I'm sure you've discovered in your interviews, 10 minutes can feel like 3 hours. And sometimes it feels like a split second, and that's always the best when it feels like that.
What's your favourite podcast to listen to?
It's funny. Podcasts are things that I tend to listen to when I'm driving. So I live an hour outside of Halifax. If I was working in Halifax a lot, for example, I might get into one and listen to it on the drive to work and back home. I've been working from home like a lot of people for the last few years, so I don't really have much time to listen to them. But when I do, I really like “Smartless”. I really like the guests that they have on, and I like the dynamic of the 3 hosts. I haven't, to be honest, listened to enough true crime podcasts, or those kind of serial drama ones where an episode ends and you're like “What's gonna happen next?”. I got to write a podcast for kids this past year for audible, which was really fun. It's called “Wildlife Confidential”. It's true animal stories from around the world and the animals are the guests on this interview show about the stories.
How did you move from TV to podcasting?
I think the thing about television sometimes is that you have to rely on so many other people to get a show made. You have to rely on the network, and you need a camera person and maybe to get some funding from the government. There are so many pieces, so many ingredients that have to come together to bake this pie. For a podcast you just need a mic. And there's a mic in your phone. So that's the thing that I'm really excited about, for your generation, is you can make a short film tonight if you want on your phone. You can make a podcast right now. When I was starting out TV shows, because there were only a few channels, had to appeal to you and your grandmother because everyone had to agree on what to watch. Now, podcasts can be so specific. You can do the mustard podcast, and everyone that loves mustard will listen. You don't have to worry about making the “everything for everybody” podcast.
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I was also really excited about the idea of doing something that got real time feedback. Sometimes on a show, like Mr. D. for example, you shoot it in the summer, it comes out in January, and there's so long between shooting it, it being edited and coming out. With a podcast, we can record it right now, and it's out in an hour, and you're getting an email from someone saying “that was hilarious”. In TV I was just kind of missing that real time audience feedback.
Do you have any advice for somebody getting started in podcasting?
Yes, make one. That's the short story. There are always reasons to not do something, and you can kind of talk yourself out of it, and say “maybe one day” or “something I'd like to do at some point”. I was just having this conversation with a friend today, and my advice to her was, make a few episodes. Don't announce you're making one. Don't say April first my podcast will be coming out. Just record a few episodes of something, so you can listen back to them and hone your craft. Don’t put the pressure on yourself of having a launch date that you told everyone it's coming out. Just record it to kind of find your voice and get your feet under you. Do it about something that you're genuinely passionate about. I couldn't do a podcast about math. I don't like math. And one thing about podcasting is that people have to be genuine and genuinely interested in it. So do something you love, record a few episodes just to find your voice and kind of get a rhythm for it. Listen back to them, and I'm sure you'll hear a few cringe moments, as you kind of learn the craft. But by not announcing, “hey, everyone, I'm doing this thing”, there's no pressure on you, because it's your own little secret. You can scrap those episodes, and they never have to see the light of day. But maybe by the fourth or fifth one you'll be like, I think there's something here. So just start is the short answer.